I apologize for posting so much. I seem to have a lot of energy these days. I promise to do something about that by going out and working in the yard today. :-) But, I wanted to pass along this link from the Contrarian today. I feel it somehow fits into our topic today. It's about miss using the word/term polarization.
Thank you--and never apologize. We come here when we have something to say, and I'm always (well, usually) ready to listen. I appreciate your contributions. And while I don't agree with Rubin on this call, I always appreciate what she has to say, too!
Thank you for choosing this book, Susan. I read it when it came out and have been reviewing it. Painfully, I must say. To me, the most significant thing about this book is something IW does not write: "race", "racism", "racist". Those terms perpetuate the caste system by validating a made up construct, thus making it almost impossible to analyze and discuss rationally what is actually happening to people.
I agree with what you wrote somewhere - it is about power of the dominant group. In order to maintain that power, they have to know who is in and who is out. I used to get hurt and angry when people would ask me "what are you?" or "where are you from?" in order to know how to categorize me in the caste system, and therefore how to treat me. It was obvious, when with white friends, my white siblings, or white co-workers that I was being singled out with these questions, as opposed to simple curiosity (which some would use as a cover).
Now, I am not angry or fearful. I really want us to acknowledge all that is our legacy, and scrutinize the absurdities (there are many) only as evidence that the system is not truth based, rather than get caught up in arguing this one or that one rule/standard. People are naturally drawn to poles because it is easier to live with false certainty there. I think if more of us inhabit the in between space, where people and situations don't cleanly fit into a category, yet they are just as real as the poles, we will have to come up with a new system.
Trans people, for example, are real, and because they cannot be placed into a category cleanly, they are one of the first groups to be targeted by this administration. Some are 'legal', 'white', and 'men', yet they are clearly Othered.
I also think about passing or laying low as survival strategies (or simply because of internalized racism) that disintegrate one's identity, and the impact that has on generations and on the collective. My father was of 100% Irish descent and my mother Filipino. My DNA profile is more Irish than Filipino (because mom has Portugese, Chinese, and Japanese mixed in), but because I present as non-white, I had a very different experience than my brother, who presents as white (of course, also as a man).
Subconsciously, I sought a white mate, to make life easier for myself and my children, I suppose. But what might have been lost? Collectively, I think we are seeing what happens when individuals are forced or subconsciously or consciously choose to move away from diversity. The dominant becomes stronger and more sure of its right to be so. We dig the hole deeper.
Maria, so glad you've contributed this perspective, reminding us that as individuals, we are each unique. Some of us are more betwixt/between than others (example: you, your brother)--and yes, you are the ones who introduce uncertainty into the system: not either/or or neither/nor, but both/and. Other And this uncertainty is so profoundly disturbing, perhaps more so when it comes to gender/sex than race or ethnic identity. There's more to say here, don't you think? We haven't yet scratched the surface.
I also agree fiercely: this is what Trump's destruction of DEI is all about. He's pandering to the weak people who can't confront the Other.
Maria, thank you for detailing what we only think we know. We may want to believe that because we are sympathetic, we 'know'. We do not know unless we have experiences that open our eyes and senses to just how vile and difficult the ruling class can make it for the under class. Little glimpses that started to wake me included a native man being shot to death for not immediately dropping the knife he was using to carve a small piece of wood. I teenage boy of Asian appearance shot and killed when he answer the door with a pencil in his hand, that the officer 'thought' might be a knife. An older Arab woman at a local bus 'park and ride' who was surrounded by 3 police officers for feeding the pigeons and who was harangued, until she wept. She was here visiting her daughter and son-in-law. She taught English and French at home. The local police were so puffed up and she stood maybe 5 ft. Talk about being embarrassed to be an American! When I invited her to sit by me after they left, she was shaking. All I could think was, please let her know that was not normal. On reflection, I was the one who was learning that for some, that was normal.
Sandy, what a powerful experience (the bus stop) for you--and for her, I am sure. We can only imagine how that Turkish Fulbright Scholar must have felt, being arrested out of the blue and hauled off god-knows-where by ICE. We are all ashamed! (Or should be.) And angry.
I believe he has been deported. Simply horrible for him and an abysmal disgrace for our country!!! So unfathomable what this administration is doing to our educational system!!! Who is going to come to our colleges?!?! People should be speaking out loudly and repeatedly!!!
Ohhh, perhaps we cannot actually know from personal experience, but our human superpower is our imagination. And we can use that ability plus our free will to immerse ourselves in others' stories and experiences, through books and other art and through community, as we are doing here! And then move through the world perhaps differently.
I think it is precisely because humans can feel (through imagination and our ties as one family) what it would be like to be the Other that they must dehumanize as a tactic.
Thank you for your thoughtful response. I am so grateful for this space for us all to examine our structures and places in them. And how we may want to begin to change.
I love the idea of imagination being a super power! Often being told to stop daydreaming as a little kid, I actually have a faint memory of closing the window through which I would daydream ... or imagine various scenes. It was many years later before I experienced looking out through that window again. Mean time, my Capricorn tendencies set me down and I learned to keep books and make everything ship shape. I mention all of this, because I see a good part of our fellow beings live without using their imaginations. They follow daily patterns and tend to shy away from anything that will upset that pattern. They may grumble about this or that, but there is truth in the phrase "our secure insecurities'. Just as those who are raised in a noisy dangerous neighborhood can feel 'something' is missing in a quiet woodland setting, we miss even our fears if they have been with us daily. Taking a break to daydream ... or imagine, can actually feel threatening to the daily pattern of one who has not experienced it. Or, only experienced a repeated daydream of limited variety. Then of course there are those who have plunged into evil daydreaming up to their elbows!!! UGH!!! They are on full display just now.
Yes: we can know through what we see on the media. Which is why I am so grateful to those citizen journalists who whip out their phones to record troubling events. We need all the diverse input we can get, to see and learn what's happening to the Others. I'm also grateful to the journalists who follow their stories. No, this is NOT NORMAL, as Sandy says! And even though it hurts, we need to see it.
Dad passed in 2016 and after important things were cleared-up, I tried to stop dad's mail via the USPS. And just as you and Bill have experienced I still get junk mail for dad. Maybe USPS sees this as a profitable sideline! :-)
We wondered about that, too, Sandy. Also thinking that there's a money to be made in mailing lists, where it's the quantity that pays, not the quality.
Applying caste to the stratification in Americans had not been something I ever considered before. So I began by defining the castes to whichI belong.
I am a white woman with Anglo-Saxon and Germanic roots.
I was raised in an extremely racist and misogynistic home. My Southern mother embraced all the “Jim Crow” attitudes. She never called my husband by his Christian name. She addressed him as “damn Yankee.”
I am Quaker – certainly not a typical religious affiliation. Quakers fled England because of religious persecution. Our branch of the Society of Friends is definitely not Christian.
As a woman braving the forefront of physical sciences, specifically chemistry. I have been ignored, mocked, excluded and labeled “second-rate” (women are “too emotional”). I have proposed programs rejected outright only to be subsequently proposed (with at most minor changes) by a male that were applauded and implemented.
I have had more than one similar experience on an airplane.
Men coming to the house often asked to speak to the “head of household,” assuming there is a male titular head.
I assume Wilkerson places women lower than men in each caste.
I would also say that “older people,” regardless of original caste, are placed into a caste of their own. Our country revels in youth and has little respect for “elders” or compassion for infirmities.
My last caste is “handicapped.” While my limitations are physical (I use a walker and wear a steel leg brace), I am not invited to many activities nor accepted for volunteer projects (none require any physical activity). I had to use a contact at the local ADA office – several complained that the ramp into my front door is an “eyesore.” All this, despite the fact I live in a 55+ community.
From these perspectives I am ready, as Wilkerson requests, to continue standing up for what I believe is “right.”
I am glad for your strength of mind Georgeann, to see through the meanness that many cannot. They wrap themselves in religions or political parties or associations and can't break free of those who lord over them with their not so subtle tack ticks. I find this especially disheartening when it happens to young children that get indoctrinated into beliefs that may take them a lifetime to disengage from. Your strength of believing in yourself is so admirable! Children need to be exposed to that! It could help them to see that acting-out is not the way. Better to make a plan to grow beyond the current situation. As to those who are blind to what an asset you would be to any group, that is just a shame on them.
I appreciate your words of support. I quickly learned that going "around" this type of barricade sometimes worked. I kept my children away from my parents. One of the few times I was visiting them, my mother point blank told my daughter that her interest in science was "evil." I learned how to talk with my children about their biases. Fortunately my husband's parents were the antithesis. Today she is an MD/PhD faculty researcher at Vanderbilt Medical School.
Georgeann, thank you THANK YOU for walking us through this exercise! I had very similar thoughts, although religion was not a marker for me. I also included my rural Midwest origin. I experienced this in grad school, where my contemporaries were primarily East Coast urban. I felt disadvantaged by that (as well as being female, etc). Adding race to this mélange would have made life very difficult.
I agree. Having race added to my assembled castes might have been overwhelming. I do know that black females in the physical sciences are statistically rare. Supporting each other is helpful = but I always felt embattled.
Yes, likely even more disadvantaged there than in the liberal arts, where I taught. And then disadvantaged again in administration, where I worked. I was lucky--came along at a time when females were being targeted for higher ed admin positions. This was in the era of Donna Shalala as Ed Sec, in the Carter admin. She was proactive for women and many slipped into position denied them under Nixon and later Reagan. Interesting times.
I am reading Caste and I am feeling truly embarrassed to say I am an American. I have very close friends from India (love their food) and Black relatives as well as LGBTQ+ family and friends. Why should any of that matter. They are all humans. I can not and never understood where the difference is. Some people are bad, some are good, some are nice, some are not but color, height, ethnicity doesn’t matter.
That need to have a simple rule of who to accept and who to degrade, sadly seems very ingrained in some of us humans. Perhaps IW speaks to that? Toni, I, like you have rarely used outward appearances as a way of knowing a person. I have to see how they behave over time. I once dropped a childhood friend because she referred to her parents as old-man and old-woman as they were older parents than average. In many ways she was fun to be with, but I liked her folk, too! And I knew, as she knew, how disrespectful and hurtful she was being. :-)
I think we all feel that embarrassment, Toni. We were programmed to think that America is "exceptional"--the very best of nations, bar none. All its flaws have been carefully concealed, and seeing them fully and openly revealed is painful. But necessary, if we are to continue as a liberal democracy (and not as a White Nationalist Christian autocracy, with all that means!). Thank you for joining in--we'll have more discussion over the next couple of weeks.
Since 'Christians' have been mentioned, I do not understand why leaders of all of the Christian religions are not speaking out about the absurdity of the White National Christian take-over of the word Christian. Would somebody please speak-up as to what the essence of being a Christian, is about. I say this as someone who has never belonged to a church but was raised by a mother who loved the Psalms and various other parts of the Bible and I have been lifted up from time to time by those past on thoughts. I could never belong to any belief system that told me how to behave in a marriage beyond to respect and love one another.
Christianity is defined and redefined by every culture--almost as many different definitions as there are Christians. And they all attribute their beliefs and behaviors to the same document. Quite amazing, when you stop to think about it.
A little time and Susan and Liz Hancock's comments have roused my few grey cells about the topic of caste in my experience. I feel ashamed that the obvious ones did not immediately come to mind. All so called 'American Indians' are the most obvious outcasts here in their own lands. And yes in Canada, too. And yes even today the outcast continues with the 'vanishing' of Indian women happening very regularly here in Washington state. The tribes have done what they can to assimilate with their rather successful casinos with big name celebrities and hotels, but many whites still see them as the underclass. And the Indian women in particular are targets for abuse.
Then of course there are the thousands of farm workers who come in from not only Mexico but also from Central and South American countries. They get construed as gang members and other criminal types, when in my experience they are often hard workers who may follow some religion and care deeply about their family members and try to keep to themselves for safety sake. White farm and orchard owners have been soliciting their labor for my whole life time for pennies on the dollar and pitiable shacks to live in. While casting them as living like animals.
And then there are both the Japanese and Chinese who are almost unseen by our blind eyes. In my ignorance as a young woman I befriended an American-Japanese woman a few years my senior who was a very talented tailor and ran one of the larger alteration departments in Seattle. She opened my eyes about how the wealthy white men and women treated her. She was born here in Washington state and married to a rather successful lawyer who was also a decorated marine. Quietly perceptive on many levels. She helped me with contacts to grow my business and opened my eyes to who and what I was in the midst of, without malice. As she was reaching retirement, she lost both her husband and her daughter to cancer. She bore that time of great stress and sadness by herself at work. But she had her friends from her home life to support her, for which I was very thankful.
Thank you for these examples, Sandy. Sounds like even though you're White and middle-class (like almost all of us here), you have a wealth of experience to measure against as you read this book. Framing the exclusion of the Other as an issue of caste helps Wilkerson (and her readers) see it in a larger context than just the Black/White dichotomy we're used to.
I'm sorry she didn't include LGBTQ in her discussion--it's something we'll want to add as we think more about this book.
So right about speaking up about our LGBTQ friends! I know an army veteran who happens to have been a photographer for the Army with many awards to her credit, who went through the 'don't ask, don't tell' policy of our recent past. Shesh! To put it politely.
We read Caste in our book study group awhile back - very powerful book. I find it interesting that people feel the pie never grows - if I don't grab my slice, I lose. But the pie keeps expanding. I am also struck by the current efforts to 'whitewash' history. It is as if admitting mistakes is a bad thing. Helen Keller: "Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through experience of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthened, ambition inspired and success achieved...All the world is full of suffering. It is also full of overcoming." I have experienced growth when I admit my mistakes and learn from them, not hide away pretending all is good. Striving to find that more perfect union is a good thing. Erasing history makes everyone a lot dumber and keeps us from learning and growing. Thanks for all you are doing in shepherding this discussion.
I am partway into Caste and I am amazed at how this book seems to explain the others. The idea behind caste systems is the fundamental belief that some people are better than others. This is the underpinning of all the other problems: racism, patriarchy, Christian nationalism, mistreatment of queer folks, all of it. Wow. I am learning so much. Thanks for suggesting these. My daughter is a librarian and she says this book is flying off the shelves. And that’s in a deep red state. That gives me hope.
So GLAD to hear that Caste is being read! Wonderful news, thanks for sharing, Lynne!
I do feel that Wilkerson's book, coming after the others, provides us with the larger context, not just historical, and not just race but gender (thinking LGBTQ, which she doesn't get into).
For me, this concept especially underpins White Christian Nationalism and explains a great deal of what's going on in J&JW. There, it's not just that some people are socially better than than the Others, but that some are "saved" and the Others are all "damned." Pretty heavy stuff.
Georgeann, my brain is a little crowded this morning, so I handed your question to ChatGPT4--my AI colleague. (I've been experimenting with uses of AI. Here's the exchange, unedited. I'll be interested in your thoughts about it--about the AI's process, as well as the content.
Susan, to ChatGPT. Good morning! A reader just asked this: Do you know of a book like Wilkerson's Caste, that explores the role of women in the U.S., from both historical and cultural perspectives?
ChatGPT said:
Good morning! That’s a great question—rich territory, and there are a few standout books that come to mind immediately, depending on how close your reader wants to stay to Caste's intersectional, systemic framing. Here's a short list with different angles but all firmly grounded in U.S. history and culture:
1. America's Women: 400 Years of Dolls, Drudges, Helpmates, and Heroines by Gail Collins
Approach: Sweeping, accessible history
Why it fits: Collins gives a panoramic view of American women's lives over four centuries—social roles, economic participation, legal status—with sharp wit and smart cultural commentary. Less theory-heavy than Wilkerson, but solidly historical and nuanced.
2. The Second Sex by Simone de Beauvoir (U.S.-centric editions/introductions)
Approach: Foundational feminist philosophy with global scope
Why it fits: While not focused solely on the U.S., its intellectual influence on American feminist thought is profound. If your reader is looking for a deeper theoretical foundation for the social construction of womanhood, this is core curriculum.
3. Hood Feminism: Notes from the Women That a Movement Forgot by Mikki Kendall
Approach: Intersectional, contemporary, polemical
Why it fits: Like Caste, this book dismantles dominant narratives. Kendall critiques mainstream feminism for sidelining women of color, poor women, and others not centered in the "Lean In" model. Very readable and culturally astute.
4. Good and Mad: The Revolutionary Power of Women’s Anger by Rebecca Traister
Why it fits: A kind of counterpart to Caste in terms of tone and narrative scope. Traister traces how American women’s anger has been pathologized and politicized—and how it has driven social change. Anchored in both history and current events.
5. Sisters in the Struggle: African American Women in the Civil Rights–Black Power Movement, ed. by Bettye Collier-Thomas and V.P. Franklin
Approach: Scholarly, edited collection, grounded in civil rights history
Why it fits: A powerful counterpoint to Caste, this highlights how Black women shaped liberation movements and were simultaneously marginalized within them. Important for understanding gender and caste-like dynamics in activist spaces.
Bonus Recommendation:
6. The Women's History of the Modern World by Rosalind Miles
Approach: Global, but with significant U.S. focus
Why it fits: Big-picture sweep, with flair. Less academic but good for readers who want context and connection.
I understand both rigorous academic research references and how AI is created enough to understand how this list was compiled.
For this type of listing, huge data bases are required (probably in part the data was collected using AI itself). Imagine data scanning for all the key words, especially using reviews, summaries and critical analyses. . .
Programming then allowed for searing on "key" words and phrases."
The list is only as good as the original data base. While this topic isn't too controversial, I can imagine other topics having limitations on what data is collected. being presented. For instance, revising history, or providing only one perspective..
I listened to Caste several years ago while walking and working in the garden. It brought me to tears multiple times and I sometimes had to turn it off because it was too much. While I am aware of the cruelty we as humans are capable of, as a modern white woman, I wanted to believe it was in the past and that it couldn't happen again. I just ordered a used copy from a bookstore because the wait for the library book was twelve weeks.
That gives me a bit of hope. People are reading it.
Of course, the cruelty never goes away; it is just packaged differently. As someone who came from the working class, I thought I would see the best of the best when I started working at a community college. During those 20 years, I witnessed coded behavior by those who came from upper class families. I heard tenured instructors complain and mock their "ignorant" students (who were often first generation college students and/or working class), and students shared the shame put on them by various college employees (our financial aid office staff was horrible).
I spent my teen years in Milwaukee WI, a city that was clearly segregated by race. A river divides the city into the northside and southside. Nonwhites were not welcome in the southside; it was well-known that houses would not be sold to nonwhites. The northside had neighborhoods where white people like me were warned to never visit, walk or even drive through. In the 60s, there were race riots and I remember visiting my parents' friends and listening to the husband who was a city police officer refer to blacks as animals and criminals. My parents were not openly racist but they bought into the fear and beliefs that kept racism alive.
The caste system is critical to an exploitative economic system like capitalism and imperialism. I have been thinking a lot this past year about how American citizens are treated and viewed by the elites in our system. Publically, we are viewed as data, products, consumers, workers, and in the last decade, we have been assigned labels like MAGA, libtards/liberals, deplorables, fem-nazis, terrorists, baby killers, etc. This is an extension of the caste system to dehumanize us and make us disposable.
I will have more thoughts once I reread the book. They will likely be as depressing as the ones I wrote this morning!
People ARE reading it--especially since influencers like Oprah pointed it out. Without that, it might not have gained much traction. Caste itself is something that nobody wants to talk about--so a book on the subject is not exactly welcome. Especially one like this, which is honest and raw in its brutal detail. I'm glad you're considering a reread. You're brave.
That you for your examples. My first introduction to racism was my father, who spanked me, hard, for roller skating with the Black boy down the block. I was 9. The next month, we moved. I'm sure that all of us don't have to look very hard for old scars of caste and race.
Susan, so sorry to hear of how you were spanked for 'being a kid'. Truly sorry. My father was raised in Baton Rouge (he actually knew one of Huey Long's boys) . When dad stayed up here in Washington state after his military service and marrying my 'northern' mom ...he had little evidence of the caste system he had been born into with regard to blacks and whites. I remained only vaguely aware that such was going on in other parts of the country till my high school. I think being in the Marines had opened dad's eyes and heart. He rarely talked of his service. But, I do remember how he was 'taken' by the orderliness of the Japanese foxholes and the disgust he felt for how his fellow soldiers (who he also honored) had trashed and pirated what they found. I knew many of the laborers on dad's jobs were black, but it wasn't until I spent some time in the south with his family much later that I began to realize what a corner he had turned in moving away from them.
That spanking was a "teaching moment" for me, for sure. It showed me who my dad really was (there's more to the story, of course).
I'm glad you were able to see how your father's awareness of caste/race changed as his circumstances (Marines) and his place(PNW) changed. The many displacements of WW2 were opportunities for people to move beyond their beginnings and see the world from a different place. That may have made the 1960s Civil Rights achievements possible.
Thank you for openly reflecting on this. I know you'll keep it in mind as you read.
Not to go on, especially since I have not read Caste. But what you say about how war may have had it's benefits in breaking up some people's thinking about 'others' seems true to me. Perhaps the fact that many service men were very young and still able to change (perhaps even acquire) patterns of behavior.
If you should have the time and care to reflect more on that time with your dad it could add to this topic. :-)
Susan, so glad you have opened this post up with your points of reference for discussion about these books and authors and our own related experiences. I am eagerly awaiting Caste on Libby. I was lucky enough to see an interview with Isabel Wilkerson on MSNBC just as the book was being released. She has an understated manner that sort of hides her brilliance. I remember a sense of being shown my country from a new perspective. Will do my best to catch-up with you all.
As to ways I have experienced division in our culture. I was slow to wake up to most of them. Being the first born of 4 siblings, and 6 years ahead of the rest I was treated well by my parents. I knew I was a child, but I felt able to give most anything that came to mind a shot. I was an entrepreneur as soon as I was old enough to iron and babysit. It never occurred to me that this was not something a little girl should do. I was made aware that some people saw kids and girls differently quite late. Perhaps as late as my first real jobs. But even then, I was way behind the curve of seeing the bias against women. And also the bias against adults without college education. The good part of my ignorance is that it allowed me to grow up feeling I had equal footing to grow and do whatever I was capable of understanding. Living in the PacNW has a good deal to do with my blindness to what was happening in other parts of the country. Now, I sometimes see our country rather like a big stove top with many different meals in the making. Meals that would clash if served together, yet there they all are being made at the same time. With this analogy perhaps we could best use someone who knows how to set the table and serve the courses! :-)
Fantastic comments Sandy, I am looking forward to reading the book, Although I lived in CA for some years, being British and a Canadian I've had a chance to see some different systems at work. Coming from a slightly upper middle class background my first understanding of "Caste" was when I wanted to marry my husband, a "working- class" lad. Then having my accent mimicked in CA and made to look foolish in Quebec. All part of growing up, I thought, but now I realize it was all to do with control and to keep the status quo To carry on the tradition of "them and us", an in - grained deep- seated dislike because of the history between the American people and Britian, both in America and Quebec
Such feelings linger from generation to generation, unquestioned and accepted,
Thaks folks I'll touch base again when I've had a chance to get to read the book.
Liz, as an outsider & visitor, I didn't notice caste in Canada, but I certainly did in England, where it is even celebrated in the British landmarks. Here is America, we like to pretend it is invisible, which may be why the British system seems so prominent to us.
You are so right Susan, The class system was one reason we took to the hills and it is, very obvious where ever you go, After all Colonization and the Slave trade were an important part of England's growth. Think the East India Company as an example.
But you will find the same thing in Spain France Germany and many other European countries We cannot outrun our past, but we can make sure we change for the good and not regress -that is the most difficult thing of all.
Yes, it's everywhere--Wilkerson's countries are just examples (exacerbated in the U.S. because of our long and vexed history of enslavement). Trump is now making it visible with his brutal attacks on DEI--something I hope we'll talk about, in the context of this book.
Very enlightening Liz. I will look forward to hearing more from you and sharing thoughts when we both have read at least some of Caste! In the mean time think Spring! :-)
Sandy, your focus on region is interesting. I'm reading American Nations: A History of the Eleven Rival Regional Cultures of North America, by Colin Woodard. He calls your region "The Left Coast" which "combines the Yankee faith in good government and social reform with a commitment to individual self-exploration and discovery."
So yes, you were fortunate to grow up there, where (perhaps) caste (if not race) is not as sternly enforced as it is, say, in the Deep South--and where gender is less an issue. (I'm glad for that: I have a trans grand-nephew in Seattle--easier for him than many other places, I'm sure.)
Wilkerson paints with a broad brush and doesn't make the finer distinctions of region that you're remarking on here. Thanks for point this out--and for sharing your experiences. I hope you're able to get the book soon . . .
I suspect one of the challenges for America is the noticeable differences because of geographic location. I have lived on the left coast (both CA and WA), in ID (definitely not part of the Left coast), CO (different from ID), TN, NC, VA and MD (all part of the south) as well as MA (part of New England and distinctly different from all the others). A description of "caste" would be defined differently in each location.
Geographic mobility also impacts caste. Those regions with little influx tend to stabilize their own cutlure. .
Interesting--this intersects with my reply to your analysis of your personal caste, Georgeann. I do agree that caste is defined and felt differently from region to region. (Currently reading American Nations: A History of the Eleven Rival Regional Cultures of North America (Colin Woodard). Excellent book, especially good in the sections about the settlement of each region.
You and I grew up right after WW2, when (my opinion) caste in this country was most disrupted by the mobility imposed by the war. I think this made the civil rights progress of the 1960s possible.
Really looking forward to reading Caste. As time changes all things, much of what I treasured about the' NW Left Coast' of my childhood is gone or so different as to be as much, as gone. The prevalence of Proud Boy types is scary and not to be ignored. And the Federal attempts to stir division between people like those of Israeli and Palestinian heritage in our colleges, or those with different feelings about preserving our native 'anything' is ever ready to boil over. Still, I try to be who I am as much as is safe to do so, and be a small example of another path.
Woodard's book (written in 2010) is looking at a slightly different slice: "The Left Coast has been the birthplace of the modern environmental movement and the global information revolution (it is home to Microsoft, Google, Amazon, Apple, Twitter, and Silicon Valley), and the cofounder (along with New Netherland) of the gay rights movement, the peace movement, and the cultural revolution of the 1960s." Sounds like he's out of date. (The Proud Boys date from 2016).
But I would think that caste habits are pretty persistent, and that there's still a lot of Other-tolerance in your region that isn't evident, say, here in Central Texas.
Oh yes, there are the things you name. We had a governor, Jay Inslee until this year who worked hard to protect our environment. Our new governor who was the very competent Attorney General and friend of Inslee, is having to give almost all of his attention to keeping our state budget and agencies afloat while battling the current series of debacles. American Nations sounds interesting even if we now have a changed landscape .... dare I say changed people-scape.
You're right, Sandy: incoming/changing people can change an area's character (neighborhood, community, even state). Where my son lives, California liberals are moving into conservative Nevada--enough to affect voting patterns. And here in TX, Hispanics will soon outnumber Whites--perhaps enough to turn the state purple.
I don't agree with everything in Woodward's book, but his basic outlines are interesting. A lot of stuff there I didn't know.
That California/Nevada and Texas update sounds promising! :-) I have put Woodward's book on my library reading list.
For a little chuckle ... because it is all I can do now .. .I ordered a few packets of seeds from a little much loved nursery in Puyallup, WA at the end of March. They sent them out the next day and USPS acknowledge receiving them at the Seattle facility .... where it sat all last week. I emailed USPS Customer Service about this and they acknowledged receipt of my email (or I suspect AI did that, because I have heard nothing more from Customer Service.) Anyway this past Monday it was discovered in New Orleans. Sheesh! And now it has been in Santa Rosa Calif. since Tuesday night with a note saying it will be delivered late. Uh ... I suppose late would be one description of what has happened. Life in these United States! :-)
It's all about power. Unfortunately, it always has been, since the beginning of time. The only thing that changes is who has the power. While I agree with Wilkerson's story, her book could have been about any number of groups (the Irish, the Chinese, LGBTQ, women). Right now the power play is against immigrants, but more subtly also about some groups of voters. After that, who knows? Since retribution is raising it's ugly head, I suspect that it will be a broad list of anyone who doesn't "go along".
Wilkerson's book actually is about other groups, Linda--that's why I wanted us to read it. She spends quite a lot of time on Indian castes. She also includes Irish and Chinese (you can check her index for the references). I absolutely agree about LGBTQ, the ultimate "Others": I kept scribbling notes about to myself about that.
And yes, at this time and in this paradigm, immigrants are among the ultimate "Others" and terribly vulnerable, as we're seeing. The depth and intensity of the resentment against them is just beginning to reveal itself, and while the courts have been fairly quick to respond, the legal battles are exhausting for these immigrant families.
Another group that is definitely on the chopping block, are seniors. In particular poor seniors. This became evident in the first Trump term in office with his attempt to banish good medical care and then to ignore the peril of Covid for many seniors. Now what is happening with SS, Medicare and Medicaid will soon have seniors on the streets. And also have hospitals and senior care centers closing for lack of funds. Combine this with the thousands of people who have dementia and Alzheimer's in this country and it is such a disaster on our doorstep.
I fear circumstances will only get worse during his second term. If his "team" gets full access to social security computer resources non-payments could become a true nightmare.
Joyce Vance's Sunday post included some of the very sneaky ways 'they' may attack people on SS whom they consider undesirable, including indicating that they are dead! ( Note the next to last paragraph about that.) Imagine what a nightmare that could be to straighten out. UGH! Here's a link to Joyce's post:
Thank heaven for observers like Joyce (and so many others!) who help us sort through what's happening. And thank you for pointing out that paragraph, Sandy. Declaring people "dead" is a means of killing them. And cheaper than hunting them down and putting them before a firing squad.
When my father died the funeral home alerted SS among other entities of his passing. Which seemed right, until I found that they would also discontinue all mail being delivered to his address. This meant I as the person taking care of his medical bills, insurance and so many other things, fell out of the loop. And when I went to SS to try and straighten this out, I was suspected of some kind of wrong doing! In the end I had to one by one make contact with whom ever might still have been sending him things. Like property taxes! In my experience, this was already a boondoggle waiting to happen without DOGE's help.
Sandy, so sorry you had to deal with that challenge, in addition to the loss of your father. And yes that mail thing is a huge problem. Bill served as executor of a dear friend Bob's estate. He died in Feb 2023, and Bill gave our address for forwarding. We are still getting Bob's junk mail, no matter how hard Bill tries to cut it off. Our lives live after us--in ways we don't always expect! 🙄
Commendable and impressive! This is a powerful undertaking that illuminates hidden histories. My focus and role these days is all consuming as a storyteller, unearthing the ancient tales of the feminine heroic. As I do, I sense a resonance to the crises now in speaking the symbols and archetypes of the suppressed stories and that motivates me. There are layers of knowledge, in the fabric of history and culture, in how we create reality.
Kate, I understand that resonance--share it and wonder about it. We're watching Elizabeth R, the 1971 production, and issues of tyranny, misuse of authority, and especially separation of church/state all drive that story in ways I missed when I watched it earlier. Am I seeing this because of current events? Fascinating question.
Susan, I sense we are in a heightened state of awareness, alert to the news of the days, the exposure of what has been hidden in our American history on a shocking scale. No doubt, the issues of other, past histories are laid bare, no longer quaint in their archaic trappings. Elizabeth R is a heroic figure, good to revisit her sense of personal and regal power for inspiration and apply hers to the current, brute machinations of American power. But maybe Elizabeth I started it all by granting Sir Walter Raleigh a charter to establish colonies in the New World as a base for English privateers!
Exactly! (Raleigh) and her constant reminders of the tyrants in her family: sister Mary, father Henry. This is also in the context of Wolf Hall, where the themes of tyranny and abuse of power frame the entire series.
Re resonance. This happened to me once before, when I was making a huge personal life change. Everything that I confronted seemed to be part of that. And now every single thing that happens seems to be another echoing crisis in a paradigm of crises. No doubt this is due in part to my close readings of these Guerrilla books, which I can recommend only to the courageous reader.
I apologize for posting so much. I seem to have a lot of energy these days. I promise to do something about that by going out and working in the yard today. :-) But, I wanted to pass along this link from the Contrarian today. I feel it somehow fits into our topic today. It's about miss using the word/term polarization.
https://open.substack.com/pub/contrarian/p/words-and-phrases-we-can-do-without?r=2l04ge&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=false
Thank you--and never apologize. We come here when we have something to say, and I'm always (well, usually) ready to listen. I appreciate your contributions. And while I don't agree with Rubin on this call, I always appreciate what she has to say, too!
Thank you for choosing this book, Susan. I read it when it came out and have been reviewing it. Painfully, I must say. To me, the most significant thing about this book is something IW does not write: "race", "racism", "racist". Those terms perpetuate the caste system by validating a made up construct, thus making it almost impossible to analyze and discuss rationally what is actually happening to people.
I agree with what you wrote somewhere - it is about power of the dominant group. In order to maintain that power, they have to know who is in and who is out. I used to get hurt and angry when people would ask me "what are you?" or "where are you from?" in order to know how to categorize me in the caste system, and therefore how to treat me. It was obvious, when with white friends, my white siblings, or white co-workers that I was being singled out with these questions, as opposed to simple curiosity (which some would use as a cover).
Now, I am not angry or fearful. I really want us to acknowledge all that is our legacy, and scrutinize the absurdities (there are many) only as evidence that the system is not truth based, rather than get caught up in arguing this one or that one rule/standard. People are naturally drawn to poles because it is easier to live with false certainty there. I think if more of us inhabit the in between space, where people and situations don't cleanly fit into a category, yet they are just as real as the poles, we will have to come up with a new system.
Trans people, for example, are real, and because they cannot be placed into a category cleanly, they are one of the first groups to be targeted by this administration. Some are 'legal', 'white', and 'men', yet they are clearly Othered.
I also think about passing or laying low as survival strategies (or simply because of internalized racism) that disintegrate one's identity, and the impact that has on generations and on the collective. My father was of 100% Irish descent and my mother Filipino. My DNA profile is more Irish than Filipino (because mom has Portugese, Chinese, and Japanese mixed in), but because I present as non-white, I had a very different experience than my brother, who presents as white (of course, also as a man).
Subconsciously, I sought a white mate, to make life easier for myself and my children, I suppose. But what might have been lost? Collectively, I think we are seeing what happens when individuals are forced or subconsciously or consciously choose to move away from diversity. The dominant becomes stronger and more sure of its right to be so. We dig the hole deeper.
Maria, so glad you've contributed this perspective, reminding us that as individuals, we are each unique. Some of us are more betwixt/between than others (example: you, your brother)--and yes, you are the ones who introduce uncertainty into the system: not either/or or neither/nor, but both/and. Other And this uncertainty is so profoundly disturbing, perhaps more so when it comes to gender/sex than race or ethnic identity. There's more to say here, don't you think? We haven't yet scratched the surface.
I also agree fiercely: this is what Trump's destruction of DEI is all about. He's pandering to the weak people who can't confront the Other.
Maria, thank you for detailing what we only think we know. We may want to believe that because we are sympathetic, we 'know'. We do not know unless we have experiences that open our eyes and senses to just how vile and difficult the ruling class can make it for the under class. Little glimpses that started to wake me included a native man being shot to death for not immediately dropping the knife he was using to carve a small piece of wood. I teenage boy of Asian appearance shot and killed when he answer the door with a pencil in his hand, that the officer 'thought' might be a knife. An older Arab woman at a local bus 'park and ride' who was surrounded by 3 police officers for feeding the pigeons and who was harangued, until she wept. She was here visiting her daughter and son-in-law. She taught English and French at home. The local police were so puffed up and she stood maybe 5 ft. Talk about being embarrassed to be an American! When I invited her to sit by me after they left, she was shaking. All I could think was, please let her know that was not normal. On reflection, I was the one who was learning that for some, that was normal.
Sandy, what a powerful experience (the bus stop) for you--and for her, I am sure. We can only imagine how that Turkish Fulbright Scholar must have felt, being arrested out of the blue and hauled off god-knows-where by ICE. We are all ashamed! (Or should be.) And angry.
I believe he has been deported. Simply horrible for him and an abysmal disgrace for our country!!! So unfathomable what this administration is doing to our educational system!!! Who is going to come to our colleges?!?! People should be speaking out loudly and repeatedly!!!
The latest on her situation: https://www.cnn.com/2025/04/14/us/rumeysa-ozturk-arrest-update-tufts-university/index.html
Sorry i was thinking of the Palestinian man who was just deported. Here is a link to his story:
https://www.cnn.com/2025/04/10/us/mahmoud-khalil-evidence-deadline/index.html?iid=cnn_buildContentRecirc_end_recirc
This is all so un-American!! And terrible.
Ohhh, perhaps we cannot actually know from personal experience, but our human superpower is our imagination. And we can use that ability plus our free will to immerse ourselves in others' stories and experiences, through books and other art and through community, as we are doing here! And then move through the world perhaps differently.
I think it is precisely because humans can feel (through imagination and our ties as one family) what it would be like to be the Other that they must dehumanize as a tactic.
Thank you for your thoughtful response. I am so grateful for this space for us all to examine our structures and places in them. And how we may want to begin to change.
I love the idea of imagination being a super power! Often being told to stop daydreaming as a little kid, I actually have a faint memory of closing the window through which I would daydream ... or imagine various scenes. It was many years later before I experienced looking out through that window again. Mean time, my Capricorn tendencies set me down and I learned to keep books and make everything ship shape. I mention all of this, because I see a good part of our fellow beings live without using their imaginations. They follow daily patterns and tend to shy away from anything that will upset that pattern. They may grumble about this or that, but there is truth in the phrase "our secure insecurities'. Just as those who are raised in a noisy dangerous neighborhood can feel 'something' is missing in a quiet woodland setting, we miss even our fears if they have been with us daily. Taking a break to daydream ... or imagine, can actually feel threatening to the daily pattern of one who has not experienced it. Or, only experienced a repeated daydream of limited variety. Then of course there are those who have plunged into evil daydreaming up to their elbows!!! UGH!!! They are on full display just now.
Yes: we can know through what we see on the media. Which is why I am so grateful to those citizen journalists who whip out their phones to record troubling events. We need all the diverse input we can get, to see and learn what's happening to the Others. I'm also grateful to the journalists who follow their stories. No, this is NOT NORMAL, as Sandy says! And even though it hurts, we need to see it.
Dad passed in 2016 and after important things were cleared-up, I tried to stop dad's mail via the USPS. And just as you and Bill have experienced I still get junk mail for dad. Maybe USPS sees this as a profitable sideline! :-)
We wondered about that, too, Sandy. Also thinking that there's a money to be made in mailing lists, where it's the quantity that pays, not the quality.
Applying caste to the stratification in Americans had not been something I ever considered before. So I began by defining the castes to whichI belong.
I am a white woman with Anglo-Saxon and Germanic roots.
I was raised in an extremely racist and misogynistic home. My Southern mother embraced all the “Jim Crow” attitudes. She never called my husband by his Christian name. She addressed him as “damn Yankee.”
I am Quaker – certainly not a typical religious affiliation. Quakers fled England because of religious persecution. Our branch of the Society of Friends is definitely not Christian.
As a woman braving the forefront of physical sciences, specifically chemistry. I have been ignored, mocked, excluded and labeled “second-rate” (women are “too emotional”). I have proposed programs rejected outright only to be subsequently proposed (with at most minor changes) by a male that were applauded and implemented.
I have had more than one similar experience on an airplane.
Men coming to the house often asked to speak to the “head of household,” assuming there is a male titular head.
I assume Wilkerson places women lower than men in each caste.
I would also say that “older people,” regardless of original caste, are placed into a caste of their own. Our country revels in youth and has little respect for “elders” or compassion for infirmities.
My last caste is “handicapped.” While my limitations are physical (I use a walker and wear a steel leg brace), I am not invited to many activities nor accepted for volunteer projects (none require any physical activity). I had to use a contact at the local ADA office – several complained that the ramp into my front door is an “eyesore.” All this, despite the fact I live in a 55+ community.
From these perspectives I am ready, as Wilkerson requests, to continue standing up for what I believe is “right.”
I am glad for your strength of mind Georgeann, to see through the meanness that many cannot. They wrap themselves in religions or political parties or associations and can't break free of those who lord over them with their not so subtle tack ticks. I find this especially disheartening when it happens to young children that get indoctrinated into beliefs that may take them a lifetime to disengage from. Your strength of believing in yourself is so admirable! Children need to be exposed to that! It could help them to see that acting-out is not the way. Better to make a plan to grow beyond the current situation. As to those who are blind to what an asset you would be to any group, that is just a shame on them.
I appreciate your words of support. I quickly learned that going "around" this type of barricade sometimes worked. I kept my children away from my parents. One of the few times I was visiting them, my mother point blank told my daughter that her interest in science was "evil." I learned how to talk with my children about their biases. Fortunately my husband's parents were the antithesis. Today she is an MD/PhD faculty researcher at Vanderbilt Medical School.
Love knowing that your daughter had you to support her education and understanding of the world she lives in. You must be mightily proud of her! :-)
Georgeann, thank you THANK YOU for walking us through this exercise! I had very similar thoughts, although religion was not a marker for me. I also included my rural Midwest origin. I experienced this in grad school, where my contemporaries were primarily East Coast urban. I felt disadvantaged by that (as well as being female, etc). Adding race to this mélange would have made life very difficult.
I agree. Having race added to my assembled castes might have been overwhelming. I do know that black females in the physical sciences are statistically rare. Supporting each other is helpful = but I always felt embattled.
Yes, likely even more disadvantaged there than in the liberal arts, where I taught. And then disadvantaged again in administration, where I worked. I was lucky--came along at a time when females were being targeted for higher ed admin positions. This was in the era of Donna Shalala as Ed Sec, in the Carter admin. She was proactive for women and many slipped into position denied them under Nixon and later Reagan. Interesting times.
I am reading Caste and I am feeling truly embarrassed to say I am an American. I have very close friends from India (love their food) and Black relatives as well as LGBTQ+ family and friends. Why should any of that matter. They are all humans. I can not and never understood where the difference is. Some people are bad, some are good, some are nice, some are not but color, height, ethnicity doesn’t matter.
That need to have a simple rule of who to accept and who to degrade, sadly seems very ingrained in some of us humans. Perhaps IW speaks to that? Toni, I, like you have rarely used outward appearances as a way of knowing a person. I have to see how they behave over time. I once dropped a childhood friend because she referred to her parents as old-man and old-woman as they were older parents than average. In many ways she was fun to be with, but I liked her folk, too! And I knew, as she knew, how disrespectful and hurtful she was being. :-)
I think we all feel that embarrassment, Toni. We were programmed to think that America is "exceptional"--the very best of nations, bar none. All its flaws have been carefully concealed, and seeing them fully and openly revealed is painful. But necessary, if we are to continue as a liberal democracy (and not as a White Nationalist Christian autocracy, with all that means!). Thank you for joining in--we'll have more discussion over the next couple of weeks.
Since 'Christians' have been mentioned, I do not understand why leaders of all of the Christian religions are not speaking out about the absurdity of the White National Christian take-over of the word Christian. Would somebody please speak-up as to what the essence of being a Christian, is about. I say this as someone who has never belonged to a church but was raised by a mother who loved the Psalms and various other parts of the Bible and I have been lifted up from time to time by those past on thoughts. I could never belong to any belief system that told me how to behave in a marriage beyond to respect and love one another.
Christianity is defined and redefined by every culture--almost as many different definitions as there are Christians. And they all attribute their beliefs and behaviors to the same document. Quite amazing, when you stop to think about it.
So true Susan. We humans can shape-shift with the best of them! :-)
Yes, indeed! That's such an apt metaphor. Thank you!
A little time and Susan and Liz Hancock's comments have roused my few grey cells about the topic of caste in my experience. I feel ashamed that the obvious ones did not immediately come to mind. All so called 'American Indians' are the most obvious outcasts here in their own lands. And yes in Canada, too. And yes even today the outcast continues with the 'vanishing' of Indian women happening very regularly here in Washington state. The tribes have done what they can to assimilate with their rather successful casinos with big name celebrities and hotels, but many whites still see them as the underclass. And the Indian women in particular are targets for abuse.
Then of course there are the thousands of farm workers who come in from not only Mexico but also from Central and South American countries. They get construed as gang members and other criminal types, when in my experience they are often hard workers who may follow some religion and care deeply about their family members and try to keep to themselves for safety sake. White farm and orchard owners have been soliciting their labor for my whole life time for pennies on the dollar and pitiable shacks to live in. While casting them as living like animals.
And then there are both the Japanese and Chinese who are almost unseen by our blind eyes. In my ignorance as a young woman I befriended an American-Japanese woman a few years my senior who was a very talented tailor and ran one of the larger alteration departments in Seattle. She opened my eyes about how the wealthy white men and women treated her. She was born here in Washington state and married to a rather successful lawyer who was also a decorated marine. Quietly perceptive on many levels. She helped me with contacts to grow my business and opened my eyes to who and what I was in the midst of, without malice. As she was reaching retirement, she lost both her husband and her daughter to cancer. She bore that time of great stress and sadness by herself at work. But she had her friends from her home life to support her, for which I was very thankful.
Thank you for these examples, Sandy. Sounds like even though you're White and middle-class (like almost all of us here), you have a wealth of experience to measure against as you read this book. Framing the exclusion of the Other as an issue of caste helps Wilkerson (and her readers) see it in a larger context than just the Black/White dichotomy we're used to.
I'm sorry she didn't include LGBTQ in her discussion--it's something we'll want to add as we think more about this book.
So right about speaking up about our LGBTQ friends! I know an army veteran who happens to have been a photographer for the Army with many awards to her credit, who went through the 'don't ask, don't tell' policy of our recent past. Shesh! To put it politely.
Thanks Susan, I shall keep what you have said in mind when I finally get my book from the Library.
These posts are always online, Liz. https://susanwittigalbert.substack.com/s/guerrilla-readers I need to remind readers of that.
We read Caste in our book study group awhile back - very powerful book. I find it interesting that people feel the pie never grows - if I don't grab my slice, I lose. But the pie keeps expanding. I am also struck by the current efforts to 'whitewash' history. It is as if admitting mistakes is a bad thing. Helen Keller: "Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through experience of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthened, ambition inspired and success achieved...All the world is full of suffering. It is also full of overcoming." I have experienced growth when I admit my mistakes and learn from them, not hide away pretending all is good. Striving to find that more perfect union is a good thing. Erasing history makes everyone a lot dumber and keeps us from learning and growing. Thanks for all you are doing in shepherding this discussion.
Thank you for adding the quote from Helen Keller.
I am partway into Caste and I am amazed at how this book seems to explain the others. The idea behind caste systems is the fundamental belief that some people are better than others. This is the underpinning of all the other problems: racism, patriarchy, Christian nationalism, mistreatment of queer folks, all of it. Wow. I am learning so much. Thanks for suggesting these. My daughter is a librarian and she says this book is flying off the shelves. And that’s in a deep red state. That gives me hope.
So GLAD to hear that Caste is being read! Wonderful news, thanks for sharing, Lynne!
I do feel that Wilkerson's book, coming after the others, provides us with the larger context, not just historical, and not just race but gender (thinking LGBTQ, which she doesn't get into).
For me, this concept especially underpins White Christian Nationalism and explains a great deal of what's going on in J&JW. There, it's not just that some people are socially better than than the Others, but that some are "saved" and the Others are all "damned." Pretty heavy stuff.
Susan = do you know of a book, like Wilkerson's, that explores the role of women in the U.S., from both historical and cultural perspectives?
Georgeann, my brain is a little crowded this morning, so I handed your question to ChatGPT4--my AI colleague. (I've been experimenting with uses of AI. Here's the exchange, unedited. I'll be interested in your thoughts about it--about the AI's process, as well as the content.
Susan, to ChatGPT. Good morning! A reader just asked this: Do you know of a book like Wilkerson's Caste, that explores the role of women in the U.S., from both historical and cultural perspectives?
ChatGPT said:
Good morning! That’s a great question—rich territory, and there are a few standout books that come to mind immediately, depending on how close your reader wants to stay to Caste's intersectional, systemic framing. Here's a short list with different angles but all firmly grounded in U.S. history and culture:
1. America's Women: 400 Years of Dolls, Drudges, Helpmates, and Heroines by Gail Collins
Approach: Sweeping, accessible history
Why it fits: Collins gives a panoramic view of American women's lives over four centuries—social roles, economic participation, legal status—with sharp wit and smart cultural commentary. Less theory-heavy than Wilkerson, but solidly historical and nuanced.
2. The Second Sex by Simone de Beauvoir (U.S.-centric editions/introductions)
Approach: Foundational feminist philosophy with global scope
Why it fits: While not focused solely on the U.S., its intellectual influence on American feminist thought is profound. If your reader is looking for a deeper theoretical foundation for the social construction of womanhood, this is core curriculum.
3. Hood Feminism: Notes from the Women That a Movement Forgot by Mikki Kendall
Approach: Intersectional, contemporary, polemical
Why it fits: Like Caste, this book dismantles dominant narratives. Kendall critiques mainstream feminism for sidelining women of color, poor women, and others not centered in the "Lean In" model. Very readable and culturally astute.
4. Good and Mad: The Revolutionary Power of Women’s Anger by Rebecca Traister
Approach: Contemporary, journalistic, culturally sharp
Why it fits: A kind of counterpart to Caste in terms of tone and narrative scope. Traister traces how American women’s anger has been pathologized and politicized—and how it has driven social change. Anchored in both history and current events.
5. Sisters in the Struggle: African American Women in the Civil Rights–Black Power Movement, ed. by Bettye Collier-Thomas and V.P. Franklin
Approach: Scholarly, edited collection, grounded in civil rights history
Why it fits: A powerful counterpoint to Caste, this highlights how Black women shaped liberation movements and were simultaneously marginalized within them. Important for understanding gender and caste-like dynamics in activist spaces.
Bonus Recommendation:
6. The Women's History of the Modern World by Rosalind Miles
Approach: Global, but with significant U.S. focus
Why it fits: Big-picture sweep, with flair. Less academic but good for readers who want context and connection.
Susan,
Thanks for this list.
I understand both rigorous academic research references and how AI is created enough to understand how this list was compiled.
For this type of listing, huge data bases are required (probably in part the data was collected using AI itself). Imagine data scanning for all the key words, especially using reviews, summaries and critical analyses. . .
Programming then allowed for searing on "key" words and phrases."
The list is only as good as the original data base. While this topic isn't too controversial, I can imagine other topics having limitations on what data is collected. being presented. For instance, revising history, or providing only one perspective..
I listened to Caste several years ago while walking and working in the garden. It brought me to tears multiple times and I sometimes had to turn it off because it was too much. While I am aware of the cruelty we as humans are capable of, as a modern white woman, I wanted to believe it was in the past and that it couldn't happen again. I just ordered a used copy from a bookstore because the wait for the library book was twelve weeks.
That gives me a bit of hope. People are reading it.
Of course, the cruelty never goes away; it is just packaged differently. As someone who came from the working class, I thought I would see the best of the best when I started working at a community college. During those 20 years, I witnessed coded behavior by those who came from upper class families. I heard tenured instructors complain and mock their "ignorant" students (who were often first generation college students and/or working class), and students shared the shame put on them by various college employees (our financial aid office staff was horrible).
I spent my teen years in Milwaukee WI, a city that was clearly segregated by race. A river divides the city into the northside and southside. Nonwhites were not welcome in the southside; it was well-known that houses would not be sold to nonwhites. The northside had neighborhoods where white people like me were warned to never visit, walk or even drive through. In the 60s, there were race riots and I remember visiting my parents' friends and listening to the husband who was a city police officer refer to blacks as animals and criminals. My parents were not openly racist but they bought into the fear and beliefs that kept racism alive.
The caste system is critical to an exploitative economic system like capitalism and imperialism. I have been thinking a lot this past year about how American citizens are treated and viewed by the elites in our system. Publically, we are viewed as data, products, consumers, workers, and in the last decade, we have been assigned labels like MAGA, libtards/liberals, deplorables, fem-nazis, terrorists, baby killers, etc. This is an extension of the caste system to dehumanize us and make us disposable.
I will have more thoughts once I reread the book. They will likely be as depressing as the ones I wrote this morning!
People ARE reading it--especially since influencers like Oprah pointed it out. Without that, it might not have gained much traction. Caste itself is something that nobody wants to talk about--so a book on the subject is not exactly welcome. Especially one like this, which is honest and raw in its brutal detail. I'm glad you're considering a reread. You're brave.
That you for your examples. My first introduction to racism was my father, who spanked me, hard, for roller skating with the Black boy down the block. I was 9. The next month, we moved. I'm sure that all of us don't have to look very hard for old scars of caste and race.
Susan, so sorry to hear of how you were spanked for 'being a kid'. Truly sorry. My father was raised in Baton Rouge (he actually knew one of Huey Long's boys) . When dad stayed up here in Washington state after his military service and marrying my 'northern' mom ...he had little evidence of the caste system he had been born into with regard to blacks and whites. I remained only vaguely aware that such was going on in other parts of the country till my high school. I think being in the Marines had opened dad's eyes and heart. He rarely talked of his service. But, I do remember how he was 'taken' by the orderliness of the Japanese foxholes and the disgust he felt for how his fellow soldiers (who he also honored) had trashed and pirated what they found. I knew many of the laborers on dad's jobs were black, but it wasn't until I spent some time in the south with his family much later that I began to realize what a corner he had turned in moving away from them.
That spanking was a "teaching moment" for me, for sure. It showed me who my dad really was (there's more to the story, of course).
I'm glad you were able to see how your father's awareness of caste/race changed as his circumstances (Marines) and his place(PNW) changed. The many displacements of WW2 were opportunities for people to move beyond their beginnings and see the world from a different place. That may have made the 1960s Civil Rights achievements possible.
Thank you for openly reflecting on this. I know you'll keep it in mind as you read.
Not to go on, especially since I have not read Caste. But what you say about how war may have had it's benefits in breaking up some people's thinking about 'others' seems true to me. Perhaps the fact that many service men were very young and still able to change (perhaps even acquire) patterns of behavior.
If you should have the time and care to reflect more on that time with your dad it could add to this topic. :-)
Susan, so glad you have opened this post up with your points of reference for discussion about these books and authors and our own related experiences. I am eagerly awaiting Caste on Libby. I was lucky enough to see an interview with Isabel Wilkerson on MSNBC just as the book was being released. She has an understated manner that sort of hides her brilliance. I remember a sense of being shown my country from a new perspective. Will do my best to catch-up with you all.
As to ways I have experienced division in our culture. I was slow to wake up to most of them. Being the first born of 4 siblings, and 6 years ahead of the rest I was treated well by my parents. I knew I was a child, but I felt able to give most anything that came to mind a shot. I was an entrepreneur as soon as I was old enough to iron and babysit. It never occurred to me that this was not something a little girl should do. I was made aware that some people saw kids and girls differently quite late. Perhaps as late as my first real jobs. But even then, I was way behind the curve of seeing the bias against women. And also the bias against adults without college education. The good part of my ignorance is that it allowed me to grow up feeling I had equal footing to grow and do whatever I was capable of understanding. Living in the PacNW has a good deal to do with my blindness to what was happening in other parts of the country. Now, I sometimes see our country rather like a big stove top with many different meals in the making. Meals that would clash if served together, yet there they all are being made at the same time. With this analogy perhaps we could best use someone who knows how to set the table and serve the courses! :-)
Fantastic comments Sandy, I am looking forward to reading the book, Although I lived in CA for some years, being British and a Canadian I've had a chance to see some different systems at work. Coming from a slightly upper middle class background my first understanding of "Caste" was when I wanted to marry my husband, a "working- class" lad. Then having my accent mimicked in CA and made to look foolish in Quebec. All part of growing up, I thought, but now I realize it was all to do with control and to keep the status quo To carry on the tradition of "them and us", an in - grained deep- seated dislike because of the history between the American people and Britian, both in America and Quebec
Such feelings linger from generation to generation, unquestioned and accepted,
Thaks folks I'll touch base again when I've had a chance to get to read the book.
Liz, as an outsider & visitor, I didn't notice caste in Canada, but I certainly did in England, where it is even celebrated in the British landmarks. Here is America, we like to pretend it is invisible, which may be why the British system seems so prominent to us.
You are so right Susan, The class system was one reason we took to the hills and it is, very obvious where ever you go, After all Colonization and the Slave trade were an important part of England's growth. Think the East India Company as an example.
But you will find the same thing in Spain France Germany and many other European countries We cannot outrun our past, but we can make sure we change for the good and not regress -that is the most difficult thing of all.
Yes, it's everywhere--Wilkerson's countries are just examples (exacerbated in the U.S. because of our long and vexed history of enslavement). Trump is now making it visible with his brutal attacks on DEI--something I hope we'll talk about, in the context of this book.
Very enlightening Liz. I will look forward to hearing more from you and sharing thoughts when we both have read at least some of Caste! In the mean time think Spring! :-)
Thanks Sandy and yes now we have come out from constant rain we can think SPRING
Sandy, your focus on region is interesting. I'm reading American Nations: A History of the Eleven Rival Regional Cultures of North America, by Colin Woodard. He calls your region "The Left Coast" which "combines the Yankee faith in good government and social reform with a commitment to individual self-exploration and discovery."
So yes, you were fortunate to grow up there, where (perhaps) caste (if not race) is not as sternly enforced as it is, say, in the Deep South--and where gender is less an issue. (I'm glad for that: I have a trans grand-nephew in Seattle--easier for him than many other places, I'm sure.)
Wilkerson paints with a broad brush and doesn't make the finer distinctions of region that you're remarking on here. Thanks for point this out--and for sharing your experiences. I hope you're able to get the book soon . . .
I suspect one of the challenges for America is the noticeable differences because of geographic location. I have lived on the left coast (both CA and WA), in ID (definitely not part of the Left coast), CO (different from ID), TN, NC, VA and MD (all part of the south) as well as MA (part of New England and distinctly different from all the others). A description of "caste" would be defined differently in each location.
Geographic mobility also impacts caste. Those regions with little influx tend to stabilize their own cutlure. .
Interesting--this intersects with my reply to your analysis of your personal caste, Georgeann. I do agree that caste is defined and felt differently from region to region. (Currently reading American Nations: A History of the Eleven Rival Regional Cultures of North America (Colin Woodard). Excellent book, especially good in the sections about the settlement of each region.
You and I grew up right after WW2, when (my opinion) caste in this country was most disrupted by the mobility imposed by the war. I think this made the civil rights progress of the 1960s possible.
Really looking forward to reading Caste. As time changes all things, much of what I treasured about the' NW Left Coast' of my childhood is gone or so different as to be as much, as gone. The prevalence of Proud Boy types is scary and not to be ignored. And the Federal attempts to stir division between people like those of Israeli and Palestinian heritage in our colleges, or those with different feelings about preserving our native 'anything' is ever ready to boil over. Still, I try to be who I am as much as is safe to do so, and be a small example of another path.
Woodard's book (written in 2010) is looking at a slightly different slice: "The Left Coast has been the birthplace of the modern environmental movement and the global information revolution (it is home to Microsoft, Google, Amazon, Apple, Twitter, and Silicon Valley), and the cofounder (along with New Netherland) of the gay rights movement, the peace movement, and the cultural revolution of the 1960s." Sounds like he's out of date. (The Proud Boys date from 2016).
But I would think that caste habits are pretty persistent, and that there's still a lot of Other-tolerance in your region that isn't evident, say, here in Central Texas.
Oh yes, there are the things you name. We had a governor, Jay Inslee until this year who worked hard to protect our environment. Our new governor who was the very competent Attorney General and friend of Inslee, is having to give almost all of his attention to keeping our state budget and agencies afloat while battling the current series of debacles. American Nations sounds interesting even if we now have a changed landscape .... dare I say changed people-scape.
You're right, Sandy: incoming/changing people can change an area's character (neighborhood, community, even state). Where my son lives, California liberals are moving into conservative Nevada--enough to affect voting patterns. And here in TX, Hispanics will soon outnumber Whites--perhaps enough to turn the state purple.
I don't agree with everything in Woodward's book, but his basic outlines are interesting. A lot of stuff there I didn't know.
That California/Nevada and Texas update sounds promising! :-) I have put Woodward's book on my library reading list.
For a little chuckle ... because it is all I can do now .. .I ordered a few packets of seeds from a little much loved nursery in Puyallup, WA at the end of March. They sent them out the next day and USPS acknowledge receiving them at the Seattle facility .... where it sat all last week. I emailed USPS Customer Service about this and they acknowledged receipt of my email (or I suspect AI did that, because I have heard nothing more from Customer Service.) Anyway this past Monday it was discovered in New Orleans. Sheesh! And now it has been in Santa Rosa Calif. since Tuesday night with a note saying it will be delivered late. Uh ... I suppose late would be one description of what has happened. Life in these United States! :-)
It's all about power. Unfortunately, it always has been, since the beginning of time. The only thing that changes is who has the power. While I agree with Wilkerson's story, her book could have been about any number of groups (the Irish, the Chinese, LGBTQ, women). Right now the power play is against immigrants, but more subtly also about some groups of voters. After that, who knows? Since retribution is raising it's ugly head, I suspect that it will be a broad list of anyone who doesn't "go along".
Wilkerson's book actually is about other groups, Linda--that's why I wanted us to read it. She spends quite a lot of time on Indian castes. She also includes Irish and Chinese (you can check her index for the references). I absolutely agree about LGBTQ, the ultimate "Others": I kept scribbling notes about to myself about that.
And yes, at this time and in this paradigm, immigrants are among the ultimate "Others" and terribly vulnerable, as we're seeing. The depth and intensity of the resentment against them is just beginning to reveal itself, and while the courts have been fairly quick to respond, the legal battles are exhausting for these immigrant families.
Another group that is definitely on the chopping block, are seniors. In particular poor seniors. This became evident in the first Trump term in office with his attempt to banish good medical care and then to ignore the peril of Covid for many seniors. Now what is happening with SS, Medicare and Medicaid will soon have seniors on the streets. And also have hospitals and senior care centers closing for lack of funds. Combine this with the thousands of people who have dementia and Alzheimer's in this country and it is such a disaster on our doorstep.
I fear circumstances will only get worse during his second term. If his "team" gets full access to social security computer resources non-payments could become a true nightmare.
Joyce Vance's Sunday post included some of the very sneaky ways 'they' may attack people on SS whom they consider undesirable, including indicating that they are dead! ( Note the next to last paragraph about that.) Imagine what a nightmare that could be to straighten out. UGH! Here's a link to Joyce's post:
https://open.substack.com/pub/joycevance/p/the-week-ahead-4ff?r=2l04ge&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
Thank heaven for observers like Joyce (and so many others!) who help us sort through what's happening. And thank you for pointing out that paragraph, Sandy. Declaring people "dead" is a means of killing them. And cheaper than hunting them down and putting them before a firing squad.
When my father died the funeral home alerted SS among other entities of his passing. Which seemed right, until I found that they would also discontinue all mail being delivered to his address. This meant I as the person taking care of his medical bills, insurance and so many other things, fell out of the loop. And when I went to SS to try and straighten this out, I was suspected of some kind of wrong doing! In the end I had to one by one make contact with whom ever might still have been sending him things. Like property taxes! In my experience, this was already a boondoggle waiting to happen without DOGE's help.
Sandy, so sorry you had to deal with that challenge, in addition to the loss of your father. And yes that mail thing is a huge problem. Bill served as executor of a dear friend Bob's estate. He died in Feb 2023, and Bill gave our address for forwarding. We are still getting Bob's junk mail, no matter how hard Bill tries to cut it off. Our lives live after us--in ways we don't always expect! 🙄
Agree, Georgeann. I think we're all apprehensive about this. Deeply so.
I totally agree with you.
Commendable and impressive! This is a powerful undertaking that illuminates hidden histories. My focus and role these days is all consuming as a storyteller, unearthing the ancient tales of the feminine heroic. As I do, I sense a resonance to the crises now in speaking the symbols and archetypes of the suppressed stories and that motivates me. There are layers of knowledge, in the fabric of history and culture, in how we create reality.
Kate, I understand that resonance--share it and wonder about it. We're watching Elizabeth R, the 1971 production, and issues of tyranny, misuse of authority, and especially separation of church/state all drive that story in ways I missed when I watched it earlier. Am I seeing this because of current events? Fascinating question.
Susan, I sense we are in a heightened state of awareness, alert to the news of the days, the exposure of what has been hidden in our American history on a shocking scale. No doubt, the issues of other, past histories are laid bare, no longer quaint in their archaic trappings. Elizabeth R is a heroic figure, good to revisit her sense of personal and regal power for inspiration and apply hers to the current, brute machinations of American power. But maybe Elizabeth I started it all by granting Sir Walter Raleigh a charter to establish colonies in the New World as a base for English privateers!
Exactly! (Raleigh) and her constant reminders of the tyrants in her family: sister Mary, father Henry. This is also in the context of Wolf Hall, where the themes of tyranny and abuse of power frame the entire series.
Re resonance. This happened to me once before, when I was making a huge personal life change. Everything that I confronted seemed to be part of that. And now every single thing that happens seems to be another echoing crisis in a paradigm of crises. No doubt this is due in part to my close readings of these Guerrilla books, which I can recommend only to the courageous reader.
The world is shifting under our feet, it seems. I applaud the Guerrilla books and appreciate the summaries and comments.
I just got CASTE today on Libby from my library and will start listening. I was on a waiting list. Looking forward to joining the conversation.
Glad you were able to get it! Hope the posts are helpful to you as you read.